The rape theme

I'm sorry, but that whole storyline was bullshit, IMO.

It totally effed up a beautiful story they had begun towards the end of season 4, with the mysticism of Slayerhood. I thought it was just awesome, and they continued it in season 5, with Buffy's new training, and the spiritual aspects.

And then...BAM! It all basically came from some guys mystically raping a girl.

That's just...great.

So much for feminism.

Well I would agree that rape was threatened or attempted or occurred at least a couple of times in every season. I also would agree with Jo Jo in my distaste of the way the good old boys created the first Slayer.

I think Buffy was right to refuse to go along with recreating the process. I believe she would have lost to The First if she had gone that route. I feel the point of that event was her refusal to succumb to fear and become a victim even though there was considerable risk to her and to her goals in doing so. It was the breaking of the cycle of the Slayers being used as a tool of the elders. A rite of passage where she became their equal.

Jojo- I agree with you but I guess it was the best or most convenient way for Joss to show that The Slayer had a dark side that was always hinted at.

Fogey - I agree too about the second dose, however...what about that first dose? If it was the only means available to the Tribal Council...was it wrong?

OVer on "The essence of AMber" there's been a discussion lately about how guns (and bullets) are phallic and so Willow's torture of Warren was a rape.

And at least one writer in _% sEasons of Angel_ said by acacepting a demonic intrusion (unlike Buffy, who rejected it) Cordelia guaranteed her turn to the dark side follwoed by death, whereas Buffy won and lived. And sicne modern law rergards sexual balckmail as a form of rape, and WSkip's spiel to Cordy could be seen as blackmail of a sort......

Another way of looking at it is that the modern slayers took an unbelievably negative origin and turned it around to the Arthurian concept of "might FOR right". What began as the tribal elders trying to save their asses became individual slayers fighting the good (and lonely) fight. I think that element of free will is very important to the slayer line and is what allowed Buffy and Willow to empower all potential slayers.

Ribbie- hugs Very Happy

Fogey - you make a good weasel Wink

Hmmm, Myth - good topic!

Your right guys, i think it kinda ruined the whole girl-power thing. But you know, over the years, the Slayers didn't know about the now-dubbed "Mystical rape." So maybe they brought the girl-power to it, and are basically stronger becase of it, mentally.

I think what happened to the First Slayer was wrong, and maybe now, Buffy will come up with a new way to teach the new Slayers, instead of the Watcher-Slayer dynamic, which has caused her so much trouble in the past..

The First Slayer angle and the Shadow Men is actually a judgment on the morals we have in this day and age. It is "rape" only because we nowadays consider it such - what I find too bad is that they didn't put into light the ritualistic, traditional aspect of what had been done to the First Slayer. By saying that the Shadow Men "raped that girl" (I don't remember the exact wording of how she expressed outrage) Buffy was expressing a judgement based on modern moral criteria about something that had happened millenia ago.

For example... the prophet Mohammed married a 13-year-old girl when he was in his fifties. Back then, it was considered normal. But people nowadays would say he was a pedophile...

I agree with you Otts. Buffy's reaction, which I assume was supposed to be ours...I felt was wrong because it was a different time.

thought i would put my two cents in

going on what Otts said about how things are view differently in different times...just a thought...but perhaps the demon "rape" storyline empowered Buffy more becuase she said no and took back the power without the so called help of the shadow men....and defeated the big bad without the essence of the demon and without of the help of the old cats who happened to be all male...

i think that the demon essence was an attempt at contining the strong woman storyline...but the whole SR attempted rape was just pointless