Good Vibrations- Is Buffy really Pro-Women?

As I told Vibes, I found it to be a rather refreshing view on the whole thing. A mans perspective......and it was nice and honest. I thought it was very clever and well done. A nice read indeed! (hey that rhymed!)

It was good and well thought out article, bravo, but... It is just full of 100 reheated arguments that I have heard countless times before. Pretty people are on TV because that is what we want to see, if we wanted a show with ugly people then they would make one. And I am not saying fat people are ugly, have you see me after all. I am just sick of all the propaganda that the media has made us forced to find thin people attractive and that thin people are few and far between. Which is utter nonsense. We find who we find attractive, a ton of my friends find Jennifer Garner, and I think she looks like a guy. I think that Janeane Garofalo is hot, some people don't and I of course think that Amy Acker is the second hottest woman in the world; (Taking second only to my wife) yet some of you think she is ugly. Obviously main stream media has no influence on who I find attractive, and I am so sick of blame being put on it. The real blame belongs to the men. The guys who make fun of the slightly larger girls, and the men who dump their girlfriends when they gain a little weight. These are the people to blame.

[quote=Vibes]real chicks just don't look like that[/quote]
I don't know where you went to school, but we had a ton of girls that looked like that, yes very few of the talked to me, ok only my wife talked to me, but still they were there.

And as for Amber my wife, who is a Size 8 says she is more a size 12.

OMG...Vibes...you can write Shocked Shocked Shocked I bet you can walk and chew gum at the same time too!!!

I am so proud of you....but why?

Good article and I enjoyed the read. Charisma was not petite and she was curvy so when she left it was nice to see Amber in the cast.

You brought up an interesting topic and it can be enlarge...there are some other things that bothered me about BTVS and Female Empowerment.

Vibes hooked me with, "Before the sexy and curvy Tara". I thought Amber was sexy and curvy from day one! I am always happy to see others who agree with that viewpoint. Can you imagine Marilyn Monroe trying to make it today Shocked She would be called fat & told to lose weight. Evil or Very Mad

I vote size 6 for Amber but don't really care what size she is, she is hot! When I first heard some mistaken clowns refer to Amber as fat: I checked around and located some references to her being 5' 4" and 118 lbs compared to SMG at 5' 3" and 100 lbs. Amber is smaller and more slender than the average lady. SMG is small. Both are probably verging on being underweight. Anyway in an Amber/SMG swim suit competition, Amber would get my vote any day of the week!

In any case the vast majority of ladies on BTVS/Angel have been great looking no matter what their size differences. I think Riff lost out on the part of Willow due to a lack of acting skill not size. However I will agree that Alyson is by far the hottest of the two Willows.

Based on his shows, I suspect that Joss, in line with most of current Hollywood, likes petite & scrawny, but he will & has cast more normal looking ladies too. On BTVS and on Angel I believe Joss was working with the norm for Hollywood today; overly slender ladies. So I can still view him as supportive of Women especially the miniscule ones.

Found a few references to compare. Courtney Cox size 2, Jeri Ryan size 4, Edie Falco size 6 and Jennifer Garner size 6 (US sizes).

LOL..thanks guys...i was just a lil nervous...and

Eric you bring up good points..and i think there should be a poll on ambers size..LOL...i dont know what size she is..just took my sisters word for it...she maybe a size 12 but she still looks all types of good..LOL

again thanks for the feedback

i love it all

Myth..i can walk chew bubble gum and snap my fingers all at the sametime Shocked

Its really hard to say, cause she does look smaller in "Chance" than on BtvS, and Jenn hasn't sceen "Chance". Also I would like to point out, cause I dont think I made it clear. I still think Amber is hot, and not fat. Damn I hate it when i forget things lol.

Eric...yeah she does...i think she has lost wieght since BTVS...thats why she looks so much smaller

already chatted with Vibes about this on IM, but I'll post my comments here too:

The problem Vibes is describing is born in my view out of the friction between two elements: the pressure the producers put on themselves to promote social messages, and the pressure put upon them by the networks to produce ratings. That's why you have incredible advances made by television shows (lesbian couple on Buffy, native American officer on Star Trek, for example) followed by castings that seem somewhat shallow (the endless "catsuit woman" archetype symbolized by Vampire Willow or Seven of Nine).

This said, Vibes' article was very well written, and a refreshing change from the dread-inspiring utterings of Tiffany. Very Happy

The media at large is to blame which is why on one hand anorexia and bulemia are two of the biggest problems teen age girls embrace when constantly being assaulted with emaciated role models and told that is the "ideal" of beauty and will make popular and successful.

On the other hand we now have an "obesity problem" in America ( latest crisis of the minute) so Im guessing the "norm" in general is becoming larger. Get off the couch, put the canoli down and get busy.

Im one to talk................ Rolling Eyes

Damn Big Macs rollin'

Sprook said,

"Super Size Me" Twisted Evil

Egads, I have got to read this column! Will have soem intelligent comments after I do.

Meanwhile check out CoA's Wizard World Con Report in News Bites. I always knew ELiza was gorgeous, but she can "do" cute as well.

As to curves, well, the lack of them is atadm off-putting . LAra Flynn Boyle scres me. If Jonathan's augmentation spell worked in this dimension, let's say I'd be nice and make sure the upper floors of the house were big enough that MErcedes AMber and Claire could each have their own room.

Having actually read the column; good point Vibes. Yes it's been said before in soem ways but I liked the way you laid it out. (No truly worthwhile thoughts can ever be wholly original.) It would ahve been interesting if they'd been abel to do what you suggetsed with a less stereotypical looking actress at soem point, but as I gather Fogey was right about Riff Regan, she just didn't have the talent to pull it off.

In Joss's defense, the fact is people in the acting business tend to look like that, and there had to be soem consideration for the commercial side of it. esp. such things as the sale of side products like postrers. Add in, one has to wonder how many viewers were drawn to try the show in the first place because it was set in Groovy-Chick-Land and then stuck around? A message has to be heard to accomplish anything.

Which of course leads to the old question of whether, in the process of being ehard, the basic principle is being compromised, which was partly the ppoint of the column and not soemthing I have an easy answer for.

Fact is, soem women are healthy looking that way. Sarah's ribs may be a bad sign, but if Aly were morbidly underweight she wouldn't have those amazing abs. Yes, it's a question of image too but one show isn't going to change that part of the social landscape that much.

There's a bigger question dealing not just with the women. The fact is, Sarah, ALy, Nicky, and Eric as a group were really too good looking to be totally believeable as geeks. (For that matter so were Danny, Brad, Adam , and Tom, but they could "arrange " it better with externals.) Yes TV series are a fantasy but it still has to be a puzzler.

THANK YOU, Vibes. It was so nice to hear the opinion from a male perspective. Can't really say anything that hasn't been said, but just wanted to say good job, and I hope you'll write more in the future.

I still remember watching Buffy with my brother (13) and him saying Tara was fat. Shocked I was like "she's the closest to 'normal', you prick,"

*grrs*

K of R said,

Does anyone know how US sizes translate into UK? Divided by a common language issues here Very Happy

EDIT: Wait, I googled it...is this right?

UK 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22
USA 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20

Anyway, maths aside, I agree that the show is full of whippet-thin girls. Not being a teenager that doesn't bother me too much - I'm don't watch the tv and think "it's on the tv so therefore it's what I should be". Maybe that makes me awfully complicit in the system, but I've just accepted that's the way it is in TV land and get on with enjoying the show on all its levels. I don't think Buffy's an ideal feminist role model for other reasons (a whole other story there!) but that doesn't make it any worse a show of course, though it does make Joss's feminist posturing a little weaker. It's not an anti feminist show either mind you, just it has flaws in its role modellage.

Anyway, on the issue of size - it does actually make sense that Buffy would be quite thin. She spends every night running around! A lot of athletes are skinny. Plus, the irony is suppose to be that a puny looking girl can actually be very strong.

The notion of Tara being fat is ridiculous - but getting pissed off about it isn't worth the hassle. If some men are blind and stupid - well, just leaves more lovely beautiful girls for the smart eye-sighted ones Very Happy Women bitching about Tara's weight - well, they should know better. They've been a girl, they know the pressures. Tut tut!

As to Hollywood pressures, there are shows with stronger-looking women - the leading lady on Farscape for instance. I think strong fit looking women are a good role model for teenagers - not so thin they look like they're from another planet where there's no food, and looking like they can make their mark on the world. But whatever the shapes and sizes of the actresses, it's the writing and acting that interests me most, and the characterisation that makes me respect the show for its pushing of strong women (with some exceptions in Buffy's behaviour, but, again, another topic!)

What does Brian Wilson have to do with good vibrations anyway?