Let's talk Xander

I think Xander is a very integral part of the show. I think he is a "contrary" voice to the behavior of the scoobies. For example, I thought he was a jerk for telling buffy that "willow said kick his a$$" (or something like that), but what if willow hadn't been successful in restoring Angel's sole, and buffy knew of the attempt? would she have continued to stall? Could it have led to Angelus getting a lucky break and killing buffy, or delayed buffy just long enough for the portal to become firmly established?

I think Xander represents how many of us "gut-react" to situations. How many of us refuse to pardon someone who's done us wrong, even tho they've shown some signs of redemption (guilty as charged!)? How many of us get in over our heads in a situation and try to take a short-cut out, only to find out we really blew it? No, I think I identify as much with Xander as I do with the other characters.

Just my opinion. Good topic tho.

I think that Xander is the heart of the Scoobies b/c he is the personification of what they (and we) are all trying to do - the best we can with what we have.

When it comes to the supernatural, Xander has no special skill or gift to rely on, no vast bank of knowledge to draw on, and no particular calling to keep him in the fight. He fights because he knows that evil is out there and that part of being "good" is doing whatever he can against it. What he is gifted with is the very human depth of feeling which causes him to react strongly. Sometimes it results in great courage, love, loyalty, or friendship; sometimes it results in jealousy, pettiness, or unnecessary harshness. But he is genuine, and he is often the one who expresses what everyone else is feeling but can't/won't say.

If you guys noticed that in the end of The Harsh Light Of Day, they put the three women- Buffy, Harmony and Anya- walking in the park. They put Buffy anf Harmony there because they have both been hurt by some horrible men (sorry about that, SPike lovers, but he was horrible to Harmony). Theyt stuck Anya in there to show that Xander did the same thing as Spike and Parker; slpet with a girl, then typically forgot about her. I think that what they're trying to show is that Xander -because we know, love and can relate to him- gets off easy some times, without us being horribly at him. I just thought that was interesting...

Xander is a good man and I view him as the backbone of the scoobies, he holds them together. Literally you see it through out Buffy's house in S7, the window being repaired, the wall etc. Xander is a good man. He saw his friends go through changes and at times, he resented being the odd boy out with no powers, but he accepted it and just wanted to help where he could.

I think the ending of HLD was just men trouble in general. Not saying that it was because of a horrible man. Just that when you get involved with a man there are times when you are lost and don't know what to do. You feel the hurt and pain, but love/care/like so you cannot leave.

Xander f*cked up now and then, but he is not perfect. He is a flawed man. How many of us would have stuck around when half of the time you felt so utterly useless or designated to clean up the mess and repair the windows. The behaviors toward Spike and Angel are those you would see of a big brother looking out for his family. I think at the end Spike and Xander did like each other. Angel broke his best friends heart and his bad side killed Ms. Calendar, plus the whole draining of Buffy putting her at death's risk once again. I could see how he could not like either vampire.

Anya was treated bad at the wedding yes, but it does not make him a bad person. If he had doubts AND then went through with it, then he would have been a bad man. He paid more than enough for walking out on Anya, and I think people should get off his back already.

Which got me thinking about the Prom dress he bought for Cordelia. To me, that was the sweetest moments and a huge insight into his character. Most men, wouldn't do that for someone they used to date. *Reminds me of Otts story now, gotta reread it.*

SO to me, Xander was not only the heart, but the spine that held them up. JUst remember during S7, you did not see his working on the screen, but the silent images of it being taken care of. That was what he did best, stand back and then go into fix things.

Trisha noted that,

Xander rocks. He is soooooooooooo the heart of the scoobies. He keeps everyone grounded enough to see the big picture. It must be hard for him - not having any special powers or abilities. Was it just me or were they talking about making him have special powers after that weird Restless episode in season 4? hhmmmm nevermind.

So anyway. He ROCKS. no more to it!

Every last positive thing you've all said about Xander is very true, but the fact remians he's been quite the creep over the years esp in ther way he's trteated women (Willow in "Prophecy Girl" Cordelia in "Lovers' Walk" and before that, Anya several times.) but he's a young hcarcater and seems to have grown well out of it by "chosen" or so.

Oh please, what character on Buffy/Angel hasn't been a creep at one point in time? Willow was just as bad to Oz and Tara....... So was Buffy. Just because they make mistakes does not excuse all the good things about him.

He was the BEST potiental mate for any woman on the show.

Fogey: I was just observing, I wasn't actually saying that that is what they meant for the scene to be about. And wow! I hadn't even thought about the whole demon, human, vampire thingy...that's deep stuff...awesome!!

The thing about Xander is that he seems the most "real" to me, no super powers or extra abilities...unless you count carpentry, which is pretty handy. He speaks his heart....when he is jealous, or mad, or scared, he makes these things known....I can't really blame him for being crabby sometimes, he feels left out. I think his discussion in "Potential" shows where his heart is, despite some of the annoying things he may do.

XANDER
Seven years, Dawn. Working with the slayer. Seeing my friends get more and more powerful. A witch. A demon. Hell, I could fit Oz in my shaving kit, but come a full moon, he had a wolfy mojo not to be messed with. Powerful. All of them. And I'm the guy who fixes the windows.

DAWN
Well, you had that sexy army training for a while, and—and the windows really did need fixing.

XANDER
I saw what you did last night.

DAWN
Yeah, I— (shakes her head embarrassed) I guess I kinda lost my head when I thought I was the slayer.

XANDER
You thought you were all special. Miss Sunnydale 2003. And the minute you found out you weren't, you handed the crown to Amanda without a moment's pause. You gave her your power.

DAWN
(shrugs) The power wasn't mine.

XANDER
They'll never know how tough it is, Dawnie, to be the one who isn't chosen. To live so near to the spotlight and never step in it. But I know. I see more than anybody realizes because nobody's watching me. I saw you last night. I see you working here today. You're not special. You're extraordinary.

Well, Like I said, he'd grown out of it. If S-6 was about the disiasters which occur when people refuse to grow up, Xnader was the first in the group to get past that and becoem a real adult, Buiffy for her part knows she's still got a ways to go. I wish I knew where Willow's head was on that but she didn't ahve enough screen time for me to be sure.
Hey I like the guy for all that.

Hey Trish, sorry if I appeared to misrepresent your post. Was just trying to expand on it, but I also see the validity in what you said.

DaddyCatAlso. Xander's treatment of women was never IMHO malicious, so even if he did get off track now and again, I thought his intent and effort was usually in the correct direction.

Xander was a core Scooby who helped bring balance to the group. However with regard to holding the group together? I am not sure who exuded the most glue. They stayed together after Buffy’s season 6 death but they had the pressures of keeping things in check, caring for Dawn and the possibility of finding a way to bring Buffy back to help hold them together. They also stayed together despite Giles leaving.

Pre end of season 6 and their sticking together after Buffy's death, I would have called Buffy the one who bound the group together. She was certainly the one the group first formed around, although nothing could separate Willow and Xander for long, even pre-Scooby formation they were a unit. So I probably would go with the combination of Willow & Xander as the core stikum for the group.

I LOVE Xander. He's really the glue that sticks the group together. Not the core, as in "Core", but more the thing that gets the pieces together.
In "Anne", we see that Xander stills kicks some major demon butt with Willow and Giles - this doesn't seem very impressive, but I think that he took the initiative to do this. He just loved Buffy so much and he wanted to do what she would have done.
After Buffy's second death, he kept the Scoobies together. He may not have any supernatural power - but, as Dawn says, knowing is his power. He can confort the other Scoobies with superpowers (who are usually the most troubled ones) in a way that nobody else can. Of course, sometimes he goes stupid on the girl's dates (Angel, Spike, blahblahblah), but that doesn't mean he's a bad guy. I think he just wants to protect them.
But there's a part of me that hates him because of what he did to Anya. Evil or Very Mad . Bad, Bad Xander. But he wanted to make amends later on - too late. Anya's now dead. Mad That's the only thing about Xander - his love life is as crappy as mine.

AWWWWW poor First. Do malevolent incorporeal beings have crappy love lives? *thinks about it* well i suppose they would yeah Smile

I have never found Xander a very compelling character. He is prone to snap judgments, particularly with the men who surround Buffy, he is sometimes snarky for no good reason. I do not like what he did to Anya at all. But his role is important in the group.

I think it would do well to make a list of some of the good things he did and some of the bad. Up there in the good would be saving the world.... but think of the things he did bad.

Sorry to have been away- got so much work now that the new term has started, and have a couple of grant proposals that need to be done by August 30- and if anyone has ever worked on a grant from NIH, you know what that means!

Yes, Xander did bad things, but I will also restate that I would have rather have him walk away with his doubts than to marry Anya with them. Xander, I would date, espically after S7 and I would date Wes, only because when he loves - he REALLY loves. Any of the others, not so sure I would want them in a relationship... well maybe S7 Spike... I have no idea on that one. My point is, no one is perfect, but Xander is not the horrible man that some people make him out to be. He learns from his mistakes and moves on learning from them.

First; I think Anya had pretty well forgiven him by then and her reaction is really the one that matters. (Plus let's face it, it takes time to die from a stab wound, Andrew got otu of thewre very fast, and there was plenty of evil energy around, and I egt the feeling D'Hoffryn still would like his revenge on Anay and he couldn't take the chance on trapping her soul since she'd thoroughly reformed and Demon Lords as poweful as he is can certainly comand healing magics- perhaps she's actually been ointerdimensionally kidnapped.)

I would you know but it just can't happen...you know incorporeal and all.

Sorry

He saves Buffy's life with CPR. - Prophecy Girl

He saves Cordelia's life. - Some Assembly Required

Finding out "Ampata" sucks the life out of people, he saves Willow and lets the Incan Princess die. -Inca Mummy Girl

He and Cordelia kill the "bug guy". - What's My Line II

Xander shoves a cross in Angelus' face to save Willow. - Innocence

Remembering his army training, Xander has plan to kill The Judge. He steals a rocket launcher from an army base and shows Buffy how to use it. - Innocence

Xander slays Theresa and saves Buffy. - Phases

When Buffy tries to seduce him under the spell, even though he wants her, he doesn't take advantage. - Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered

Xander stays at the hospital the entire time Buffy is there with the flu. - Killed By Death

Angelus tries to get in to see Buffy at the hospital, but Xander stops him. Angelus calls him, "Buffy's White Knight". -Killed By Death

He becomes a member of the swim team on an undercover mission. - Go Fish

Xander saves a beaten Giles by getting him out of the mansion. - Becoming II

He saves Cordelia from a vampire. - Anne

He saves the gang by stopping a bomb from going off, without them even knowing. - The Zeppo

He tries to help Faith and talk some sense into her after she kills the Deputy Mayor. - Consequences

He finds out the lunch lady is the one trying to kill the students. - Earshot

He pays for Cordelia's Prom Dress. - The Prom

He brings Buffy the only living person to witness an ascension - Anya. - Graduation Day I.

Anya tries to get him to leave Sunnydale, but he refuses. He would rather die for the cause than run. - Graduation Day II.

He's Buffy's "key guy" -- leading the student troops against the mayor and the vampires. - Graduation Day II.

And that's just 3 seasons.

And the bad stuff? Smile

And donchoo pick on my Tara comment, you cur. She and Willow WERE the best couple ever put on tv, and romantic is only part of what they were. Deal widdit.

cur? Heh?

Twilight: That Xander moment makes me cry, it's so very sweet.

I will stand up for Xander anyday, and I'm glad most of you have too. Xander's behavior towards Spike and Angel and perfectly understandable, and even logical. I love both of those characters, but from the point of view of Buffy's friend, I get it. He was looking out for them.

Whenever Xander did something that hurt someone else, he made his ammens. He was there for Buffy during and after Angel. He made his heartwarming apologies about his Spike reaction to Buffy before she is shot. Xander loves, and it is obvious. Plus he is charming and funny. and genuine.

And as it has been pointed out, there's crummy moments all around:

Buffy:

Screwing around with her pals in season 2..that naughty dance with Xander in front of Will and so on...

That major bitchiness to Angel when she goes to LA after Faith!

Anya:

Vengeance Demon!!

Willow:

Messing with Tara's memory

Cheating on Oz

Being unfairly rude to Anya

Spike:

Uhhh...bathroom scene!

But we forgive them, because their mistakes reflect a deeper theme in the brilliance of Joss, and because we love them, and empathise with them always.

I seeeeee........I'm sure when you get enough evil in the world you'll be able to become corporeal....THAT's never gonna happen.....hmmm mebbe there's a spell...i'll look into it for you.

Twisted Evil
I see Xander as a realistic supporting character. You can believe someone like him can exist. However, I say supporting character, because the episodes that are devoted to him are hit or miss. You're going to think I'm crazy, but "The Zeppo" is the most overrated episode ever. It doesn't portray Xander's relationship with the other characters very well at all -- like he's an outsider instead of the loyal "heart of the group". It treats him like he's a train wreck waiting to happen (as in the confrontation scene with the bomb). People keep saying it's funny, but, aside from just a few somewhat contrived jokes and gags, I don't find myself laughing very much. People also keep saying Xander develops in "The Zeppo". The only development I can acknowledge is that he loses his virginity in a one-night stand (Granted: Faith does make that part entertaining.). All in all, "The Zeppo" was a cheat.

Now that that's out, I'm going to mentioned some Xander-centered episodes that fare much better. "Prophecy Girl" is probably the episode where Xander develops the most, where he gains a better understanding of the value of friendship. Buffy, however, should be slapped for rejecting him like that. Who needs a spoiled blond slayer anyway? Razz Moving on, "The Pack" and "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" are both well-worth seeing. Do you notice how none of these commendable episodes are entirely about him? It's his overall role in the Scooby Gang that stands out.

Can you repost your note in white? I cannot read the red print against the black page. And it looks to be interesting. Thanks!

G Thing; the two strongest things about "The Zeppo" are (a) it shows Xander can handle the physical and mental heroics when he has to (b) it hsowed hwo he saw himself at the time. I like dit more than you did but I see the point of your comments.

Flipper; If you use your mouse to highlight a red thread it turns to white on blue or blue on white or soemthing.

Not with mine it didn't, but I got it to work. Crazy dumbass Windows computer they give me at work- you have to be a tool to like these things. Give me a Mac anyday. Ho ho!

My problem with Xander over the course of the program is not that he was not brave, or had no powers, but rather because he was so often so immature, even into the later seasons. At some point you have to grow up, and I am not sure he ever really did, even through the loss of his eye. Of all the Scoobies, in many ways, he was tested the least; Willow, for example, is sooo much older than he is now, if you get what I am saying.

Yes i see what you're saying flipper but....if there wasn't someone there to make them laugh they'd all have gone insane with seriousness...yes you can grow up...he did in many ways...but you still have to have to huour there...or else there wouldn't have been any release for the others...they wouldn't have had any fun whatsoever.

He proved he'd grown up but he still kept that humour about him that the group needed to survive!!

That he did, Nerdy. Willow really lost that sense of whimsy-ish humor that she had for so long, though we understand why.

Off topic, having watched Life Serial last night- I have come to understand that I absolutely hate the Troika, hate them.

The Troika kicked ass in that episode....didn't really like them in the others but still...Life Serial was good for the Troika!!